I am taking the whole day off tomorrow to blog. This week has been a marathon run and I'm going to sleep. But for a taste of upcoming topics, go over to Stand Firm and read this.
11 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Anne,
I just stopped by here after reading the Elizabeth K. piece at Stand Firm. Words cannot describe my incredulousness that someone who calls her self "Christian" much less "Mother" could write something like that.... That along with the Father Jake commentary that was so acidic, calling Stand Firm commenters "bottom feeders" amongst other things, made me realize something. It is because of the braveness/holy boldness of people like you, Greg and so many others that what has been festering under the surface for so long has not come up and been exposed for what it is. Generally, that kind of horrible overreaction and inappropriate language comes from those who don't know what else to say or do....who have no place to go. They strike out blindly...trying to verbally machine gun across an open field, hoping to hit something. I am sorry it was your field and your family who were under attack, but think about how terribly pitiful your attacker is. Sad. Pathetic. On the losing end, and knows it....
You and your family are awesome and a great inspiration to so many of us! Don't stress over this...as a matter of fact, I would print out Mother E's commentary and shred it....it would probably make fine fertilizer for your garden.
Blessings from someone who does (at least for now) drive a mini-van!
Oh my... oh MY! What an awful, hateful woman this is! What kind of monstrous anti-depressants must she be on to write such horrible things about you!
God bless you, Matt, and your children. And don't let vicious and angry lesbians bother you one bit -- remember, they're the "non-judgemental" ones ;) LOL!
If I remember rightly she was up in arms a while ago about a post on a reasserter blog demanding that it be retracted and an apology issued (which it was).
I think what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. An proper apology and a withdrawal of the post would be the appropriate response.
Indeed, it’s insulting for more that just you guys. My wife is a priest (not that has anything to do with it other than I understand exactly where you are coming from), we have four children, and yes we home-school too. Yeah, it’s a ton of work, and often for very little reward. But it’s all a blessing I never regret, not even when particularly tired and grumpy.
The problem with this type of post is it goes beyond the blog battles and gets vitriolic and nasty. It’s a hit directly at home - personal and intentionally so.
I don’t know whether an apology will be forthcoming, I would hope so. In either case, perhaps forgiveness is the best response. I offer mine.
People on "my side" of the alleged culture war accuse the conservative movement of hate speech all the time, but I can think of nothing you or your husband have ever written that even remotely approaches the level of what the Rev. Elizabeth Kaeton wrote about you.
I can't apologize on her behalf, but I can apologize on mine. I am no longer part of the Episcopal Church, but when I was I served as Mississippi diocesan network coordinator in Integrity. Like many progressives, I sometimes entertained thoughts that those on the "other side" were monsters.
But the idea that this line of reasoning can be carried through to the point where one feels comfortable posting graphic murder fantasies, and does not even feel any obligation to apologize for them, is mind-boggling.
Anyone on the progressive side of the debate who reads what was written about you and your family should be shaken, should wonder what the progressive movement's leaders really stand for, what their values really are. Talk of inclusion, universal love, grace--all of that sounds hypocritical and meaningless in the context of hateful remarks like those Elizabeth+ posted, which were of course not the first hateful remarks to come from leaders in the Episcopal Church's progressive movement.
If it is any consolation, I am absolutely certain that Elizabeth+'s lapse into whatever it is she lapsed into has done permanent damage to the progressive movement in the Episcopal Church, and to her own reputation as a leader. It has also, needless to say, contaminated the rest of what might have otherwise been a worthwhile reflection.
She could have mitigated this damage with an early, and contrite, apology. She has not. Referring to her critics as "bottom feeders," she is going on her merry way with no apparent concern for the effect this kind of rhetoric has on whatever remains of the listening process.
If the Anglican Communion fractures, if the Episcopal Church is torn apart by schism and withers away by attrition, I hope that progressives are not naive enough to say that the consecration of Gene Robinson was what did it. It was the viciousness and hatefulness of those who used the controversy surrounding his consecration as an excuse to attack, humiliate, and exclude instead of as an opportunity to act in the spirit of radical love from which our leaders claim to receive inspiration.
Keaton's comments are utterly, completely disguisting.
This is much much worse than the Wicaan priest; much much worse even than the Muslim priest from last week.
In both those cases sufficient action was taken after the matter was raised with the bishop involved. I have called the Bishop of Newark (from New Zealand) to complain about this completely unhinged post.
I encourage everyone else reading this to do at least as much mmediately.
Ultimately this is a pastoral matter. No person, of whatever theological persuasion, or whatever sexual orientation can possibly be tolerated posting such a transparent wish for children to be murdered - and yet remain a leader of any kind of Church.
There can be forgiveness, perhpas - but she has disqualified herself and must never be permitted to exercise priestly ministry or leadership again - even if for the sake of her own mental health.
Wow. People never cease to amaze me, actually. I thought that sort of posting was restricted to angsty pre/teen-year olds who can't spell, and subsequently feel the wrath of the forum mods. :P
Since when is it a crime not to wear slacks? I think they are particularly unflattering (not to mention uncomfortable), myself. I occasionally wonder why in the West only the Scots wear kilts....Have you seen the utility kilts? They're spiffin' cool!
Rebecca, is that you? I was just about to poast a large banner 'CALLING ALL REBECCA's', to please respond ASAP-All Matt's emails to you have been bouncing and he is becoming testy.
Thank you, all of you, but Tom Head especially. This is kind of new territory for me. I was very much in the minority, as a conservative, in seminary, and came away with loads of friends and people I love very much who totally disagree with me. The problem with blogging at all is that it lets you dehumanize another person and then you end up in an unhappy place. I'm sure I've been guilty of this myself. But I do appreciate firm evidence that progressives overall as just as loving, human and desirous of good as we conservatives. God Bless
Another post in support: been enjoying this blog and Stand Firm for some time.
Like the Revd Elizabeth Kaeton I'm glad that in ways society today is more just to women (they don't have to marry and be mothers) but she is as narrow as some of the people she criticises (she obviously doesn't respect your choices).
She turned vicious and personal - against another Christian minister! - then didn't own up to it when caught.
It was very meet, right and her bounden duty to delete the most offensive parts (such as the minivan remark) - we've almost all made mistakes in this medium - but she still owes you a public apology, big time.
I caught the links to this over at YF's blog -- I wanted to offer my support as well. Rev. Kaeton owes you a sincere, public apology and should certainly be censured by her bishop. What she wrote was outrageous and evil.
Furthermore, how anti-feminist of her to complain about women having wanted children! She has certainly done damage to the credibility of religious progressives with her ranting. :-( Most of us are prayerful and kind and don't go about saying the kinds of things she wrote.
11 comments:
Anne,
I just stopped by here after reading the Elizabeth K. piece at Stand Firm. Words cannot describe my incredulousness that someone who calls her self "Christian" much less "Mother" could write something like that.... That along with the Father Jake commentary that was so acidic, calling Stand Firm commenters "bottom feeders" amongst other things, made me realize something. It is because of the braveness/holy boldness of people like you, Greg and so many others that what has been festering under the surface for so long has not come up and been exposed for what it is. Generally, that kind of horrible overreaction and inappropriate language comes from those who don't know what else to say or do....who have no place to go. They strike out blindly...trying to verbally machine gun across an open field, hoping to hit something. I am sorry it was your field and your family who were under attack, but think about how terribly pitiful your attacker is. Sad. Pathetic. On the losing end, and knows it....
You and your family are awesome and a great inspiration to so many of us! Don't stress over this...as a matter of fact, I would print out Mother E's commentary and shred it....it would probably make fine fertilizer for your garden.
Blessings from someone who does (at least for now) drive a mini-van!
Liz
Oh my... oh MY! What an awful, hateful woman this is! What kind of monstrous anti-depressants must she be on to write such horrible things about you!
God bless you, Matt, and your children. And don't let vicious and angry lesbians bother you one bit -- remember, they're the "non-judgemental" ones ;) LOL!
If I remember rightly she was up in arms a while ago about a post on a reasserter blog demanding that it be retracted and an apology issued (which it was).
I think what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. An proper apology and a withdrawal of the post would be the appropriate response.
Indeed, it’s insulting for more that just you guys. My wife is a priest (not that has anything to do with it other than I understand exactly where you are coming from), we have four children, and yes we home-school too. Yeah, it’s a ton of work, and often for very little reward. But it’s all a blessing I never regret, not even when particularly tired and grumpy.
The problem with this type of post is it goes beyond the blog battles and gets vitriolic and nasty. It’s a hit directly at home - personal and intentionally so.
I don’t know whether an apology will be forthcoming, I would hope so. In either case, perhaps forgiveness is the best response. I offer mine.
Anne+,
People on "my side" of the alleged culture war accuse the conservative movement of hate speech all the time, but I can think of nothing you or your husband have ever written that even remotely approaches the level of what the Rev. Elizabeth Kaeton wrote about you.
I can't apologize on her behalf, but I can apologize on mine. I am no longer part of the Episcopal Church, but when I was I served as Mississippi diocesan network coordinator in Integrity. Like many progressives, I sometimes entertained thoughts that those on the "other side" were monsters.
But the idea that this line of reasoning can be carried through to the point where one feels comfortable posting graphic murder fantasies, and does not even feel any obligation to apologize for them, is mind-boggling.
Anyone on the progressive side of the debate who reads what was written about you and your family should be shaken, should wonder what the progressive movement's leaders really stand for, what their values really are. Talk of inclusion, universal love, grace--all of that sounds hypocritical and meaningless in the context of hateful remarks like those Elizabeth+ posted, which were of course not the first hateful remarks to come from leaders in the Episcopal Church's progressive movement.
If it is any consolation, I am absolutely certain that Elizabeth+'s lapse into whatever it is she lapsed into has done permanent damage to the progressive movement in the Episcopal Church, and to her own reputation as a leader. It has also, needless to say, contaminated the rest of what might have otherwise been a worthwhile reflection.
She could have mitigated this damage with an early, and contrite, apology. She has not. Referring to her critics as "bottom feeders," she is going on her merry way with no apparent concern for the effect this kind of rhetoric has on whatever remains of the listening process.
If the Anglican Communion fractures, if the Episcopal Church is torn apart by schism and withers away by attrition, I hope that progressives are not naive enough to say that the consecration of Gene Robinson was what did it. It was the viciousness and hatefulness of those who used the controversy surrounding his consecration as an excuse to attack, humiliate, and exclude instead of as an opportunity to act in the spirit of radical love from which our leaders claim to receive inspiration.
Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison. Kyrie eleison.
Keaton's comments are utterly, completely disguisting.
This is much much worse than the Wicaan priest; much much worse even than the Muslim priest from last week.
In both those cases sufficient action was taken after the matter was raised with the bishop involved. I have called the Bishop of Newark (from New Zealand) to complain about this completely unhinged post.
I encourage everyone else reading this to do at least as much mmediately.
Ultimately this is a pastoral matter. No person, of whatever theological persuasion, or whatever sexual orientation can possibly be tolerated posting such a transparent wish for children to be murdered - and yet remain a leader of any kind of Church.
There can be forgiveness, perhpas - but she has disqualified herself and must never be permitted to exercise priestly ministry or leadership again - even if for the sake of her own mental health.
Wow. People never cease to amaze me, actually. I thought that sort of posting was restricted to angsty pre/teen-year olds who can't spell, and subsequently feel the wrath of the forum mods. :P
Since when is it a crime not to wear slacks? I think they are particularly unflattering (not to mention uncomfortable), myself. I occasionally wonder why in the West only the Scots wear kilts....Have you seen the utility kilts? They're spiffin' cool!
Yeah. Okay.
~R
Rebecca, is that you? I was just about to poast a large banner 'CALLING ALL REBECCA's', to please respond ASAP-All Matt's emails to you have been bouncing and he is becoming testy.
Thank you, all of you, but Tom Head especially. This is kind of new territory for me. I was very much in the minority, as a conservative, in seminary, and came away with loads of friends and people I love very much who totally disagree with me. The problem with blogging at all is that it lets you dehumanize another person and then you end up in an unhappy place. I'm sure I've been guilty of this myself. But I do appreciate firm evidence that progressives overall as just as loving, human and desirous of good as we conservatives. God Bless
Oops. Sorry about that, my inbox got overloaded and has been bouncing everything, so no, I haven't vanished, honest. ;)
~Rebecca
Another post in support: been enjoying this blog and Stand Firm for some time.
Like the Revd Elizabeth Kaeton I'm glad that in ways society today is more just to women (they don't have to marry and be mothers) but she is as narrow as some of the people she criticises (she obviously doesn't respect your choices).
She turned vicious and personal - against another Christian minister! - then didn't own up to it when caught.
It was very meet, right and her bounden duty to delete the most offensive parts (such as the minivan remark) - we've almost all made mistakes in this medium - but she still owes you a public apology, big time.
I caught the links to this over at YF's blog -- I wanted to offer my support as well. Rev. Kaeton owes you a sincere, public apology and should certainly be censured by her bishop. What she wrote was outrageous and evil.
Furthermore, how anti-feminist of her to complain about women having wanted children! She has certainly done damage to the credibility of religious progressives with her ranting. :-( Most of us are prayerful and kind and don't go about saying the kinds of things she wrote.
God bless you and your family.
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